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| | The !:Global Sindhis Network is not currently active and cannot accept new posts | | Deti-leti (Dowry)..a necessary evil to save the honor | Views: 3576 | | May 06, 2007 5:50 am | | Deti-leti (Dowry)..a necessary evil to save the honor | # | 
Pushpa Moorjani | | Thank you Manish for the Sindh story
While reading the ‘Sindh story’ by Kewal Malkani, I was fascinated by the fact that Gandhiji was quite-horrified by the Sindhi custom of ``Deti-Leti'' (Dowry) particularly among the Amils.
Gandhiji added: ``The Amils of Sindh are probably the most advanced community in that province. But in spite of their entire advance, there are some serious abuses of which they seem to have monopoly. Of these the custom of ‘Deti-Leti’ is not the least serious.... The parents should so educate their daughters that they would refuse to marry a young man who wanted a price for marrying and would rather remain spinsters than be party to the degrading custom.''
That was way back in 1934, more than seventy years ago. In this era, woman are educated and independent, and have faith in themselves but the ‘Dowry’ custom have still not been eradicated from our culture. Only it is done in more sophisticated way.
Recently, I had attended a wedding which was done in a very lavish way. The exchange of gifts between the families (brides/groom) was astounding.
And
Grooms family says, “We don’t want anything, whatever you wish to give, it will be for your daughter” and in whispers they will say ‘Keep the honor of my family’ (whatever that means)
Bride’s mother says, “will I have to give such a lavish party?’
Groom’s mother says, “What can I say. You know the rules. Honor must be restored. Just keep my family happy” and I wonder why bride’s family should worry about pleasing the groom’s extended families.
Sometimes I wish young boys (groom-to-be) make it very clear to their parents that they are not up for sale. He should use his own money to bring a bride for himself and not tax her parents. If, on other hand, the bride’s parents insist on giving some gifts to their daughter then a Sindhi youth is supposed to be sensible enough to invest all the money for their better future rather than waste all that money in the lavish parties.
Because (wasting money is most un-Sindhvarki-eshtyle)
Private Reply to Pushpa Moorjani | | May 06, 2007 2:48 pm | | re: Deti-leti (Dowry)..a necessary evil to save the honor | # |
Saniya Kirpalani | | Dear Pushpa
Sadly Gandhiji must have missed that the custom of dhej and dowry that has been existing in Gujrat and Kutch since the sixteenth century. It’s great to take pot-shots at sindhis and sindhiyat but when you point four fingers out… remember one points back at you.
However I have to agree with you with the core issues. It’s sad that we have dressed up dowry in a new format ‘deti leti” but its still a 'bride price' that shows the bride’s 'respect' for the boy. I think the time to change has come; a lot of educated and not so educated guys are not accepting 'deti leti' as they seek nice girl.
And its a wise choice... do you think any woman whose parents have had to pay a 'groom price' respects her husband? It’s also a time when the mothers of today to say no- for us to say 'Neither will I accept nor give'. My son is capable of earning and paying for his own respect.
Girls too have to ask themselves, "Is it okay to be married to a boy whose respect and family honor wears a price tag?" And for us mothers who are blessed with beautiful daughters and ability of giving lavish marriages.... lets ask ourselves... what will do we wish to do when our daughter's get married? But hey wait a minute-"What should we be really doing?"
Please keep up your wonderful thought process Pushpa, its nice to have a thinker amidst us.
S Private Reply to Saniya Kirpalani | | May 06, 2007 8:34 pm | | re: re: Deti-leti (Dowry)..a necessary evil to save the honor | # |
Pushpa Moorjani | | Thank you Saniya for sharing your views with me….
That’s a good question Saniya -"What should we be really doing?"
What can we really do to educate the illiterate parents who embarrass their children by asking/or giving a ‘price’?
The world is changing and I see youth of today are more mature and self-reliant. They consider gifts as unnecessary charity and some of them even feel insulted with these gifts. Time has come for young people (who are now earning more than what their parents made in their life time) to take a firm stand and just refuse to exhibit themselves in the retail-marriage-market.
A man who had faith in himself, and a woman, who is brave enough to take a firm stand, can easily survive with dignity.
Private Reply to Pushpa Moorjani | | May 07, 2007 1:45 am | | re: re: re: Deti-leti (Dowry)..a necessary evil to save the honor | # | 
Rajan Bhavnani | | I see that most of the posts are from the ladies.
And I agree that this system of deti-leti, whatever be its name in other communities, is bad.
It is for us to do things in the right way. Marriage is not about money, but about harmony life long.
Sometimes that harmony exists, sometimes it doesn't.
My family was very supportive of my approach of drawing up a list of fun filled functions (Traditional & Modern) and then splitting costs down the middle. The dissenters were in a miniscule minority!
So it is for us to change the system, and hopefully eradicate this evil.
Also, being an Amil, I for one, don't believe in the different classes we have and continue to have, though in a diluted way today. To me I am an sindhi and all Sindhis are like me.
Cheers.
Private Reply to Rajan Bhavnani | | May 07, 2007 7:17 am | | re: re: re: re: re: Deti-leti (Dowry)..a necessary evil to save the honor | # | 
Karan Jethani | | Rishi,
Partially agree with you. But DETI-LETI is the term used only when so called "good luck exchange" takes place at a Wedding. Heaven knows that it was meant to be a "dowry" or a just an exchange of "kharchi" but it if you see the usage of this word itself means dowry these days. Another word used is "Ddaajo" (which actually should mean trosseau)
Have put up a sample conversation, which contains all the components of the "Deti Leti"...
Karan :-)
Circa 1975: Conversation between two gossip mongers(leela & sheela)in a sindhi camp.
Leela: Ayee Sheela, budho aahe ta Savitri khe putt jee shaadi mein changee deti leti mili tas.
Sheela: Byo nata cha, maal masale ja ay amban ja tokra, Kapda latta, saje ghar laye waga, rok-rakam, byo ta byo chokre laye Lambretta scooter bhi milyo tas.
Leela: Putt dabbu ta athas. Halayan chorre khe cycle bhi na aches, scooter vari chha halayeendo?? Rok- bhi chavanta changee milli tas??
Sheela: Kehenkhe budhaaye ja na par mukhe Savitri je deraani budhayo aahe ta 25,000/- milya tas. Hua maayee hute payi ti sade, hunaje putt ji shaadi mein rok milyas rugo 5000/-
Leela: zaroor sadandi hii na, par hun maayee khe gah / son jhaam milyus, mukhe yaad aahe, sandas bhen mukhe gadjee hui mandar mein, pura 20 tola milya huas. Savitri khe bhi chango hi milyo hundus.
Sheela: Na ree rugo mundee mundee pataoon hik be khe, byo ghar je bhattin khe, ginni ginni mili tas, baaki haane chokri pahinje laaye kuch daaje mein khani aayee huje ta khabar kaane. Mundee bhi kaahee khaas kaan huas, ditthi maas, satavde laaye wanye pyo jeh dee, hiran jaa nandha buda huas, Makh jo matho bhi wado hundo aahe hinankha.
Leela: Chain ay breslet(Bracelet) jo paatal huas??
Sheela: Uuho haane mukhe khabar kaane, wade je saavran paato hundus, Savitri, chanddee, thodi pahinja pesa kharch kare putt khe paarayeendi.
Leela: Shaadi jo kharch, ta adh adh kayo hundaoon na??
Sheela: Chaajjo adh adh, sajjo kharch chokkri waran kayo tas. Deti leti, daajo khaado peeto sab milaaye Chokkri waran jo Lakh pakko kharch thee wyo hundo. Wari matha muyee lifafa bhi payee wathe. maa samjho Beenho kare deendi, par chaajo beenho, rugo mithaee moklayee kal singar ji, uuha bhi sevaryal.
Leela: allah, mukhe ta dyamoo moklyaeen. Sutha huas. Zarror tosa kaavar gusso hundus inha kare tokhe sevaryal mithaee mokli tayee.
Sheela: maan vari hin ja kera jahaaj bodhya aahin jo gusso tas?? Heddo suttho halandee aayaas..
Leela: Heddi gilla payee karees byo anya chha?
Sheela: Kacheri pya kayoon, hina mein gila ji kerhi gaal aah??....................
Private Reply to Karan Jethani | | May 07, 2007 11:37 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: Deti-leti (Dowry)..a necessary evil to save the honor | # |
Pushpa Moorjani | | Well said Rajan
A Sindhi is a Sindhi in todays world, be it Amil or Baibandhs or Sahiti or whatever….. I was always amused about these different caste-systems and the ego discussions on who is higher.
Prior to partition about 21% of the population of Sind were Hindus. These Hindus were part of the great family of Lohano which were divided and subdivided into many branches. The divisions were basically those of occupation.
The Amils were normally government servants and they filled many appointments in the civil service. This conferred a status upon them which set them above others and was marked by a difference in attire.
In the past they worked for Moslem rulers who often gave gifts of land in return. Thus they came to be small landowners known as Zemindars or Jageerdar. Under British rule these posts became administrative ones where they held positions as collectors and commissioners, highly respected by the British as well as the common man of Sind.
The other large group of Hindus were involved in trade and commerce of various types.
Sindhuvarkis established trading posts throughout the world and dealt in fabrics. Many were extremely rich and their women-folk were renowned for their richly dressed, bejewelled appearances .
Shikapuris were bankers who carried on business throughout the Middle East
The Vanya were shopkeepers of all types.
Sindhis themselves had no untouchable caste which in other Indian societies did the menial work.
Accordingly, they lived amongst their own group, adopting same culture, food and life styles
Private Reply to Pushpa Moorjani | | May 07, 2007 11:42 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Deti-leti (Dowry)..a necessary evil to save the honor | # |
Pushpa Moorjani | | Karan, ..that was really funny……
Thank God it was the scene of 1975…..Although, sometimes I do miss those interesting tongue-in-the-cheek conversations of my grannies’ era….
YES Rishi.. You are confused, indeed.
The give-take relationship that is done in casual way, out of friendship, is the normal way of life in Sindhi society but such give-n-take transaction, if done out of compulsion, or to keep the (honor) of the extended family, then it is called ‘Dowry’ which is an unnecessary evil.
These practices have been so deep rooted that until we ourselves take effort to eradicate it from its root it will be difficult to fight against these social menace.
Today when we see the wedding celebrations in the cities, it reminds of the gloss and glamour of Bollywood movies. Even the middle class families celebrate their weddings in Bollywood style.
Today just like any other commodity in the market weddings have also become commercialized. There are people to plan your wedding. You don't have to spend extra time in thinking about the menu or the venue of the wedding.
And all this luxury costs lot of money, which rich people can afford it and they start these trends which demands an excess burden on not-so-rich families.
Private Reply to Pushpa Moorjani | | May 07, 2007 4:16 pm | | re: re: Deti-leti (Dowry)..a necessary evil to save the honor | # |
S Bhati | | I agree with Puspha & Saniya. In U.S. many people including Indians the bride and the groom themselves share the expenses for the wedding. The parents are involved with the process but they don't pick up the tab. Nowdays, we youngsters are in a better position than what our parents were, when they were young. And we can easily afford it!
The sad part is that when I suggested the above to my parents they were not for it. Mainly due to "what will groom's parents think, what will groom say...rest of your life, you will feel obligated"
Private Reply to S Bhati | | May 07, 2007 4:36 pm | | re: re: re: Deti-leti (Dowry)..a necessary evil to save the honor | # |
Suren Bhatia | | You know, the simpliest solution to all this deti-leti is to marry a non-Sindhi.... since no non-Sindhi will marry a Sindhi except for love, everyone will be happy, or at least the couple will be happy. :) What say? Private Reply to Suren Bhatia | | May 07, 2007 4:38 pm | | re: re: re: Deti-leti (Dowry)..a necessary evil to save the honor | # |
Suren Bhatia | | Also, need to know, isn't 'chango' bastardised Punjabi? Shouldn't Sindhi say "sutho"? Genuinely confused. Suren Private Reply to Suren Bhatia | | May 07, 2007 5:07 pm | | re: re: re: re: Deti-leti (Dowry)..a necessary evil to save the honor | # |
S Bhati | | Suren,
Even in love marriages these issues come up.
You love each other very much. You discuss these issues and everything might sound great.
However, when you reach that stage groom or his parents might feel pressure from friends, society or relatives, cousins etc...Most guys in general don't like controveries and thus, are not very courageous.
The bride then feels that she is fighting this battle alone. As her parents are willing to pick up the tab for everything. At that stage you just feel compelled and to comprimise and swallow your values.
Private Reply to S Bhati | | May 07, 2007 6:57 pm | | re: Deti-leti (Dowry) article by Pushpa Moorjani and (Poem) A Daughter by anita butani | # | 
~ ever happy ~ ani. | | Hi friends,
Reading today dear Pushpa Moorjani's very nice article on "Deti-Leti" in Sindhi, which means "dowry" that generally parents of a daughter in Indian marriage give to the boy's family, I am reminded of a poem I composed on "A daughter", with somewhat similar thoughts. Wish to share with my Global Sindhi friends.
Once known, even in the womb
Generally, parents feel, a daughter is real doom,
The day, the baby girl is born
Their heart pricks incessantly, like a thorn.
Life is no more, a lovely song
They feel, Lord, has done them something wrong,
Their future, they feel, is bleak and not bright
Because, really, they have no insight.
To bring up the baby child, is parents’ duty
So they perform it, with love and sincerity,
Although, at the back of their mind, like ringing chime
The thought of bringing-up a girl child, harps all the time.
They naturally, worry about her mannerisms in Society
They cannot give a daughter, like a son, much liberty,
Once the girl like a flower, blossoms and blooms
About her dowry, is their only thought that brings gloom.
Why should parents have at all to pay so?
The baby girl, have not they taken enough trouble to grow,
In no way, a girl, these days, is less than a boy
For parents, a child is a child, a bundle of joy.
Just as the boys have in their career reached so high
The girls are in no way, left behind, but topped space and sky,
Truly girls are Lord’s gift, endearing and precious
Like chrysanthemums, daisies, lilies, so gracious.
The bottom line is, a daughter is, therefore, not at all, an agony
It is the thought, that is demeaning and funny,
It is true, just for a moment, as a parent, if you think
A daughter is always by your side, when you are at life’s brink.
anita butani
07 05 2007
Private Reply to ~ ever happy ~ ani. | | May 08, 2007 8:16 am | | re: Deti-leti (Dowry) article by Pushpa Moorjani and (Poem) A Daughter by anita butani | # | 
Sonu C | | Guess Suren has a good idea.. Marry a Non Sindhi.. Never gave a thot earlier. Fighting too may battles may make the relationship between the couple very sour and boring due to Deti leti. Other caste ppl wld not know abt each others rituals .. may hv a small wedding ceremony with immediate relations (constructively use the money for future investments). A thot to ponder on
OR Marry a sindhi with greater understanding and lesser issuesPrivate Reply to Sonu C | | May 08, 2007 8:29 am | | re: re: Deti-leti (Dowry) article by Pushpa Moorjani and (Poem) A Daughter by anita butani | # |
Karan Jethani | | Isnt Allah an Urdu word, A sindhi should say Hey Bhagwan... Suren I believe geographically punjab was the neighboring province and lot of stuff in our cultures do match, including some of our cuisine. Also that sometime back it was interestingly put by one of our own members that like Blotting paper absorbs water or any other liquid, Sindhis are do absorb a thing here or there from other culture and languages specifially hence the frequent use of the so called "bastardised punjabi" word CHANGO!! Also Chango has a wide usage
It can be used for 'good'-chango pyo lage,'abundance' - chango khaado bachyo aahe, 'ok bye' while departing we say chango, po gadjandha see. Cant be replaced by suttho.
Karan :-) Private Reply to Karan Jethani | | May 08, 2007 8:37 am | | re: re: re: Deti-leti (Dowry) article by Pushpa Moorjani and (Poem) A Daughter by anita butani | # |
Rajan Bhavnani | | On the influence of Punjab on Sindhis.
Don't forget that the eldest son in a Sindhi family was "given over" as a sikh and followed the 5Ks. Primarily, I believe, our contribution to the fierce sardars to protect our borders.
On Dowry
And Pushpa, on marrying outside the community, let me tell you that some comunities are even more ferocious in their demands as far as dowry goes! So best is to find a nice liberated partner.
Cheers.Private Reply to Rajan Bhavnani | | May 08, 2007 8:38 am | | re: re: Deti-leti (Dowry) article by Pushpa Moorjani and (Poem) A Daughter by anita butani | # |
Rajan Bhavnani | | Oops.....sorry that deti leti was for Sonu.
apologies but the finger on the keyboard is faster than the mind....lolPrivate Reply to Rajan Bhavnani | | May 08, 2007 9:54 am | | re: re: re: Deti-leti (Dowry) article by Pushpa Moorjani and (Poem) A Daughter by anita butani | # |
Pushpa Moorjani | | Thank you so much for your views.
We have a beautiful poem by Anita (thank you for posting it here). This poem should be an eye-opener for those parents who expect/give dowry and have no wish to eradicate this social menace, even if they have to put their children in an embarrassing situation.
About living the life of endless taunts and allowing people to bully them….....It is deserved by those who have no faith in themselves. How do you feel obligated for not getting him any ‘Dowry’?
Gimme a break!
To get married to a non-Sindhi to escape this ‘compulsory exchange of funds’ is not a bright solution to eradicate the social menace called ‘deti-leti’! Getting married outside our own culture requires lot of adjustments and sacrifices, which is even more painful in the long run.
Only the youngsters of today can end this menace. If they make it very clear to their parents that they are not for 'sale'.
So Be It.
I think parent’s love for their children is much greater than their love for society, friends, relatives or cousins.
Private Reply to Pushpa Moorjani | | May 08, 2007 10:30 am | | re: re: re: re: Deti-leti (Dowry) article by Pushpa Moorjani and (Poem) A Daughter by anita butani | # |
~ ever happy ~ ani. | | Pleasure is mine, Pushpa.
Thanks so much for your kind and encouraging words.
Yes, it is very true that youngsters of today, can
put an end to this menace of "Deti-Leti".
Guys! u there?
Also parents love for their children is definitely
much greater than their love for society, friends,
relatives or cousins. Well said, Pushpa.
:)
anita.Private Reply to ~ ever happy ~ ani. | | |
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